Brandi Lewis (02:27)
That’s so cool. I love hearing that. It sounds like you’ve kind of made lemons out of lemonade of your own battles and dealings with trauma. And now you’re able to help so many other people. That’s so awesome. I love that. Yeah. So we’ll just jump into it. I know me and you’ve talked earlier getting ready and preparing for this podcast, but we’ve talked a lot about mental health and the struggles around mental health.

Letisha Harris (02:38)
Yes.

Brandi Lewis (02:52)
So we’ll start with the stigmas of mental health. So why do think there’s such a stigma around that word mental health? Like, and how can we move past that stigma?

Letisha Harris (03:01)
Mental health is the biggest stigma around mental health is the definition of it. So people really define mental health as a person that is crazy or a person that is off of a level of medication or a person that doesn’t have their stability in mental health. And that’s just not the facts. The facts are is that we all deal with mental health, how we adjust it, how we manage it and how we grow in it really determines whether we seek a therapist or not. So when you think about

Brandi Lewis (03:14)
Thanks.

Letisha Harris (03:30)
your own mental health or think about your own journey to remaining stable or to remaining sane, right? Like there are things that you may do. There’s certain ⁓ norms that you may have that if those get out of whack, you may seek some guidance from someone else. And how we look at the guidance that we receive, think, especially in the ⁓ African-American ⁓ community, we do seek out

services and helps for our mental health, it just doesn’t look like a therapist. So it may be like your girlfriends and your girlfriends come and let you vent, right? That’s a mental health avenue, right? Or it may be your pastor or your family members, right? Like you’re seeking out mental health services. It just doesn’t look like a therapist. And I think people really put a stigma on what mental health looks like and what it looks like based off some society’s idea of it.

Brandi Lewis (04:02)
Yeah.

Letisha Harris (04:27)
And we all deal with mental health. We all have mental health. It’s part of our makeup. It’s part of our DNA. But how we handle it and how we manage it really determines whether or not we seek out or need to seek out therapy. Because not every experience that we have in life requires a therapist. But there are some experiences that we go through in life that a therapist could help to even just change your perspective about it or open up.

Brandi Lewis (04:34)
Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (04:53)
some things that you might have locked away or you might not even know are there. And so having a third party who isn’t privy to you or have a perception of you as a person, they can help you really navigate through those experiences or those traumas that you may have had in your life.

Brandi Lewis (05:11)
Yeah, I’d say with a therapist for me, I’ve seen a therapist more than one over times of my life. And I love the perspective of having a therapist that is neutral, that doesn’t know anybody else, that doesn’t know of the situation. And like you said, it comes from that expert opinion of helping you through that road. That’s what I love the most about having a therapist. It’s just, they’re just a neutral party. ⁓

Letisha Harris (05:31)
Yeah.

Brandi Lewis (05:40)
And that’s helped a lot, but I’ve never thought about, you’re right. Like, yeah, you may not need to seek out a therapist in every area of your life, but you’re seeking out somebody. I never thought about it like that, but you’re right. Like, I mean, and maybe it’s just something that you subconsciously do, but you’re right. Like, when you were talking, I could think of the people like my mom and people at church and people that I’ve, I’ve seeked out for different areas of my life too. Yeah.

Letisha Harris (05:58)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

that’s, mean, that’s exactly what our mental health is, is we are in in a situation or in a life experience that may be too big for us, right? Or we don’t really know where to go or how to manage it. Right. People will seek out, a lot of people will seek out a life coach before they seek out a therapist, right? Cause a life coach will kind of set you on the path and give you like tools and skills to help you manage.

Brandi Lewis (06:09)
That’s an interesting perspective.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Hmm

Letisha Harris (06:33)
whatever it is that you’re trying to get through or get out of or whatever thing you’re trying to set up in your life. And a therapist does very similar. A therapist does very similar. But a therapist gets into some of those past experiences that you’ve had in life or some of those past pains and hurts that you have in your life that you may not even realize are there or they may be shaping how you’re viewing life today and you may not be aware of it. And some people aren’t ready to experience that.

And then there are people who are. And so it really is just ⁓ a huge stigma about what mental health looks like and how we view it and how ⁓ impactful it truly is in our lives. And people really think that it’s for the crazy, know, like for the people that are, and that, you know, it’s for them too. Like it’s not just for, but it is also for people who just really want to heal.

Brandi Lewis (07:18)
Yeah.

Letisha Harris (07:27)
Who want to get rid of some of the pains that they’ve had or some of the experiences that they’ve had or are experiencing a very traumatic? Situation or life experience and it’s not something that’s a lifelong journey, right? Like therapy can be for a couple of months therapy can be for a couple of years It doesn’t necessarily have to be forever, right? And so I think that’s a huge stigma like now I’m stuck with This mental health, you know, like I’ve been to a therapist now. I’m stuck with

Brandi Lewis (07:27)
Mm-hmm.

Agreed. Yeah.

Letisha Harris (07:57)
I need help, right? And it’s not that. It’s like, you need that guidance through this thing, through this journey or this stage of your life, and that’s okay.

Brandi Lewis (07:58)
Yeah.

Yeah, I think that’s one thing that needs to be talked about too, is like you said, you don’t have to have a therapist forever. ⁓ I mean, I’ve seen more than one therapist at different times of my life, but ⁓ one was for a year, one was for a couple of months, and it was for different things that was going on in my life. ⁓ And I always talk about this, like I was diagnosed with two rare blood disorders, and so I’ve dealt with that kind of trauma, health issues in my life.

Letisha Harris (08:07)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brandi Lewis (08:34)
and the mental struggles that go with that. But I remember when I saw a therapist and I was just telling her kind of like about my background of health and kind of where I was. And she asked me, she was like, have you ever gone to therapy? And I was like, you know what? I never went to therapy for that. And I think it was because I was so busy at the time just trying to get better. I was trying to survive. Every day was a day of survival.

Letisha Harris (08:51)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Brandi Lewis (09:00)
that the last thing on my mind was you need to go see a therapist. But I felt like I was finally in the frame of mind to do that. And for me, it helped. It helped a lot to kind of close that chapter on my health and the mental struggles that went on and not letting that keep going on in my life. So I love that perspective that you brought to it.

Letisha Harris (09:05)
Right, yep.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Brandi Lewis (09:27)
It’s very interesting. I think a lot of people when they talk about seeking help or looking for a therapist, they see it as a sign of weakness. What do you say to people that may be thinking of it as, ⁓ don’t want to seem weak, so I don’t want to seek out a therapist? Like how do you reframe people’s mind in thinking about that?

Letisha Harris (09:36)
Mm-hmm.

When I talk to people about mental health or about therapy, I really give them a different perspective about what weakness looks like. Because oftentimes we think weakness is like needing help. For many women alone, asking for help is very difficult. Especially if you’re a mom or you’re a wife or you’re a significant other or you’re some…

Brandi Lewis (10:00)
Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (10:16)
a corporate person, you know, or you have a higher position in a job, like it is really difficult to ask for help because it’s like a sign of like the damsel in distress, right? And I always try to tell people that when you think about mental health, it’s not so much that you’re a weak person, just like I tell people when they cry, right? It doesn’t make you weak. It’s a cleansing of your soul. So when you think about mental health and needing to get that service,

Brandi Lewis (10:27)
Yeah.

Letisha Harris (10:44)
you’re cleansing out your soul, right? Which makes you stronger. makes the lens and the path that you’re going on stronger because you’re aware of the things that you have challenges in and you’re aware of how to handle those challenges, right? Because if I’m focused only on the pain and the situations and the challenges that I have, then I’m weak to everything else, right? I’m not able to be solid in my job. I’m not able to be committed 100 % to my

Brandi Lewis (10:48)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

you

Letisha Harris (11:13)
my

spouse or my significant other or my family members or friends. I’m not able to be a 100 % dedicated mother to my children because there’s something else that I’m focused on, right? And my mental health is a piece of that. If I’m not working on that aspect of my life, then there are weaknesses everywhere else. So although we may feel like we’re very strong in that mental health piece, right? Because you’re not seeing a therapist and you’re figuring it out for yourself.

Brandi Lewis (11:25)
Yeah.

Letisha Harris (11:40)
Everything else is kind of going by the wayside and everything else you’re not at 100 % or even 90 or 85 or 70 % because you’re focused on whatever that is and trying to survive and trying to maintain stability and being able to have a therapist, somebody that you can kind of put that stuff out on, right? Talk about that stuff and let that stuff out. Then you release that

Brandi Lewis (11:51)
Hmm.

Letisha Harris (12:07)
pressure and that tension that is attached to that and then you can be able to dedicate more of your energy, more of your mind, more of your spirit to your family, friends, work, whatever that looks like. And if you can do that, right, you have an outlet for the pain, right? It doesn’t go out onto everybody else and everything else, right? It doesn’t bleed out to that because you have an outlet for it. And so I don’t think about it as a weakness. I think about it as a strength.

Brandi Lewis (12:32)
Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (12:36)
as an opportunity for you to release some of the things that you, you know, some of the things that are putting pressure on you so that those things don’t leak out onto everybody else. And I also think about the fact that nobody has to know. Right? Just like you go to the nail appointment or you go to the hair appointment or you go to the doctor, right? When you need to get a physical, you go and do all of those things and nobody really knows until you show them.

Brandi Lewis (12:51)
True, yeah,

Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (13:03)
or until you tell them, right? The same thing with a therapist. You can go to a therapist appointment and nobody will know that you see a therapist until you tell them. And so it’s about what you find valuable for you. What things do you want to focus on and be better at and be strong in? And if it’s family, friends, work, all of those things, you want all those things to flourish and you still are holding on to some of the pains or experiences or life.

Brandi Lewis (13:03)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (13:30)
life happenings or traumas or whatever, and those are guiding your relationships, you’re always gonna have a little bit of that leakage and those people aren’t gonna be getting your full authentic self.

Brandi Lewis (13:32)
Yeah.

Wow, you said so many great points in that. Just knowing like, and I’ve seen that in my life and just in relationships with other people is when you’re not operating at 100%, when you’re in a relationship, I mean, just a friendship, any type of relationship, that person sees that and can feel that. Wow. Yeah. And it does, it leaks over.

Letisha Harris (13:58)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. Yep.

Brandi Lewis (14:08)
into whatever it is you’re trying to give that attention to that you really fully can’t ⁓ because of what you’re going through. Wow. That’s awesome. That’s awesome to know and just awesome to hear. But I also love that you said that nobody has to know. ⁓ It is you really control who you tell if you want and you control if you don’t want to tell them. That is all under your control. Wow. Yeah.

Letisha Harris (14:09)
Mm-hmm.

No, that’s right.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Brandi Lewis (14:37)
I think that hits so heavy hearing somebody else say that, somebody that’s in this space to say that you don’t have to tell anybody. ⁓ There’s no pressure around it because nobody has to know. It’s all in your hands. Yeah. Wow.

Letisha Harris (14:47)
You don’t.

Right, Yep. You don’t go

around telling people you went to the doctor for a physical. You know, you don’t scream that from the rooftop. You don’t go to your office and tell them, hey, I’m seeing the doctor today, and this is what they said, right? You may tell close friends or family members if it’s something that you need support in, but you typically don’t tell people that you went to the doctor. You just go. And the same thing is with mental health. You just go see the therapist.

Brandi Lewis (14:58)
Yeah. Yeah, you don’t.

Yeah.

Mm-mm. Yeah.

Letisha Harris (15:20)
You can call a therapist whatever you want. You don’t have to say, went to therapy. You can say, I went to go get a check-in, or I went to go increase my healing, or I went to go self-care. You can call it whatever you like. You don’t have to say, I went to see a therapist. There’s so much stigma around mental health that you can define it however you like. But if it’s going to help you heal, and help you grow, and help you mature in yourself, and…

Brandi Lewis (15:29)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mmm.

Letisha Harris (15:44)
Be your authentic 100 % self, because you don’t have all the other junk that’s attacking you and all of the other traumas that you’ve experienced in life. If you can get rid of those things and let those things be free, you can be your 100 % authentic self.

Brandi Lewis (15:59)
Yeah. And I know one thing we’ve talked about also talking about stigmas and mental health is the stigmas around being in the black community. And when it comes to a therapist or when it comes to saying that you need help for your mental health and how that is looked at it’s such differently in the black community and us being two black women talking about this.

Letisha Harris (16:21)
Mm-hmm.

Brandi Lewis (16:26)
Why do you think that is? we step away from wanting to get any of that help. Why do you think that is?

Letisha Harris (16:32)
A lot of that is rooted in our generations, in our past generations, and the experiences that people in our past generations have experienced. Mental health hasn’t always been a positive aspect, and it hasn’t always created a positive welcoming environment for people of color. There’s been lot of like, attacks on people who have mental health challenges. There’s been a lot of dismissal.

Brandi Lewis (16:36)
Thank you.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (17:00)
you know, people who have ADHD or who have bipolar or schizophrenia, you know, there is a lot of dismissal and they’re not, they don’t have a mental health crisis. They’re just, you know, acting out or they’re just this, right? And that’s not coming from our own people in our community. That’s coming from outside communities that have created this impression that people of color,

Brandi Lewis (17:15)
Yeah.

Letisha Harris (17:25)
don’t have mental health concerns, don’t have mental health issues, don’t have mental health diagnoses, right? They’re just behaving in a way that’s not appropriate, right? They’re just savaging or they’re just, you know, ⁓ people who don’t have any ⁓ class or anything like that. They’re just crazy people, right? And so that stigma has mauled over the idea of mental health, right? So that’s where a lot of that, it’s,

Brandi Lewis (17:36)
Yeah.

Thank

Letisha Harris (17:55)
for people who are crazy, it’s for people who are off their meds, it’s for people who don’t, you know, who can’t get themselves together or can’t handle their situations, right? And that comes from that place. And also there’s been a lot of experiments that have been on people of color ⁓ around the mental health world, doing experiments and testing medications for, so that white people can utilize them, right? Or so that other people of other cultures can utilize them and not so.

Brandi Lewis (18:14)
Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (18:24)
that the people of color or the mental health, know, the African-American community can use them, but so that it can be used for other people, right? Because there’s still that dismissal. And so there’s still a lot of fear around what mental health means, what it looks like. ⁓ Am I gonna be looked at as a person that can’t handle life? Am I gonna be committed? Am I gonna be all of these different things that come with it? And I always focus on

Brandi Lewis (18:30)
Yeah.

Letisha Harris (18:53)
perception, right? Because I want to change the perception around it, right? As opposed to minimize the stigma. Because the stigma is always going to be present. But I can change your perspective about why it’s important, right? Because as people of color, and African-Americans specifically, we are re-traumatized all the time. We are traumatized by one thing and then re-traumatized by it. Just in the latest,

Brandi Lewis (19:05)
Yeah.

Thank

Letisha Harris (19:21)
there’s been all these kids of color that are coming up missing. All of these kids that are being kidnapped or being, you know, ⁓ or going places and nobody knows where they are. Right. And it’s just circling and circling. Right. It’s just circling back to what was happening 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago. And so now it’s circling back around or all of the, the ⁓ pictures and views that we’re seeing of people getting killed or people getting harassed. Right. All of that is trauma.

And all of that is stuff that we’re constantly seeing. so mental health is a very important aspect, but it does make a difference in who is providing that care, right? If I’m sitting in front of a 20 year old white female who doesn’t understand what it’s like to be in their thirties or forties with kids and

Brandi Lewis (19:50)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (20:15)
a person of color, they’re not gonna be able to support me in the same way that another person of color would be able to support me or even a woman that is of experience, right? And so I think that there’s a lot of that fear too, like I’m going to be judged. I’m not going, you know, they’re gonna say that I need more support than I actually need. ⁓ What if they wanna commit me? What if, you know, and there’s all of those aspects of the mental health field that really

Brandi Lewis (20:23)
Thank you.

Thank you.

Letisha Harris (20:44)
Frightens or puts ⁓ a Halt on the decision to go into mental health, right? And so now that it’s being more exposed and there’s being more of an understanding and there are more people that People are seeing of color in mental health. I think it’s opening that window, but there’s still that fear, right? I mean when you think about Just going right when you think about looking for a therapist. It’s it’s a fear like this person is not gonna

Brandi Lewis (21:02)
Yeah.

Letisha Harris (21:11)
This person’s going to judge me immediately, right? This person has no idea. They’re not going to know, you know, how my situation is. They’re not going to understand. Am I going to be trying to justify my situation so that they, you know, I get their approval? Like all of those things happen and those things happen in everyday normal life. But when you think about exposing your vulnerabilities, it really is a piece that you want to be able to find the right person and know that that person is going to support you in

Brandi Lewis (21:15)
Yeah.

Letisha Harris (21:41)
exposing yourself, in learning about yourself, in changing your perspective. so perspective is a huge one for me. I think about just the perspective of what mental health is, of why you’re doing it, right? And making sure that you’re doing it because it’s something that you need, it’s something that you know that you want and you need. Because if you’re doing it because someone else told you that it’s a good idea, it’s not gonna stick.

Brandi Lewis (21:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah, I I love how you said that you’re focusing less on the stigma and more on the perception of it. And how do we change that? Because it’s true, there’s so many layers to it. But even just back to being re-traumatized and trauma, how would you define trauma? How do you define that? And then how do you define the re-trauma of that?

Letisha Harris (22:15)
Mm-hmm.

So trauma is for me, trauma is an exposure to something that is not that is foreign to you and it creates a difference, a different ⁓ chemical balance in your body, right? So trauma can be a simple thing. It doesn’t have to be, you know, when we think about traumas, oftentimes we think about ⁓ assault on people or we think about huge car accidents, right? But if you think about you,

Brandi Lewis (22:36)
Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (22:58)
We’re at the stoplight getting ready to go and somebody’s car, you know, somebody ran through the stoplight, right? And you’re like, my God, right? And your life flashed before your eyes. That’s a trauma. That’s a trauma because it has halted something in you, right? So the next time you go to a stoplight, you’re going to be a lot more cautious, right? You’re going to think about that last experience. That’s trauma. And that’s what trauma looks like. And when you have those built up,

Brandi Lewis (23:11)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mmm.

Letisha Harris (23:29)
Right? You get anxiety, you get depression, you get these panic attacks, you get these, ⁓ these super vigilant, hyper vigilant behavior, right? Like where you’re looking around, constantly looking around and hoping that something doesn’t happen to you. Or you start thinking about, as my husband always says, you awful eyes, right? So you start thinking about everything as being horrible. Everything is going to be bad. And right. That’s trauma. And that’s just the result of your trauma. Right. And they have piled up on top of each other.

And so when you are traumatized already, and then you go like everyday life, right? Like that’s a trauma. That’s an everyday life trauma. Well, that’s probably going to happen to you again, which is going to retraumatize you, right? Or you’re going to see somebody get into an accident, right? Which triggers you back to that trauma that you experienced, which is now retraumatizing you. Now all of those old things that were happening are coming back up.

Brandi Lewis (24:12)
Yeah.

Hmm.

Letisha Harris (24:26)
Right? Your body is tensing again. Your body is uncertain, right? Because your body never forgets what happened to it. From the time you were born, from the time you came out of the womb and the process through the birth canal, your body never forgets. And so I have told people like when you ⁓ were born, know, asking what the birth story was when you were born is so important and so therapeutic for your journey in life.

Brandi Lewis (24:27)
you.

Yeah, very true.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (24:53)
Because there are certain experiences that you had when you were born that you recycle when you are when it’s your birthday or when it’s ⁓ when you have a have a birth, right? All of those things recycle in your own body. And so how you responded, right? So if you were if it was traumatic and you had to be rushed to the emergency room, your mom had to be rushed to the emergency room to deliver you right. And they had to pull you out of the right. All of that is going to happen to you.

in your body, if it’s not healed out, it’s gonna happen to you and your body when your birthday comes or when you have a certain birth experience, right? So all of those things happen to our bodies because our body doesn’t forget. Our body remembers things. It remembers everything really that happens to it, whatever. And it also remembers, and I think this is key, it also remembers the emotional attachment to something.

Brandi Lewis (25:41)
Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (25:50)
So if a word is said to you and you had an emotional, physical response to that word, whenever that word is said, your body will physically respond. if there’s certain words that were said while you were experiencing that, your body is going to remember that if that word is said. You know, if the word stupid is said.

Brandi Lewis (25:50)
Mm.

Letisha Harris (26:11)
when you’re getting across the face, your body is going to remember if somebody said stupid and will tense or will move or will halt, right? Because your body is responding to not just the actual physical experience, but also the emotional and words that are attached to whatever experience you had.

Brandi Lewis (26:19)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Wow. it speaks to like, like you said, something that’s happened to them. If it happens again, your body remembered those emotions, but how do you react the second time to that? You know, because of how it made you feel the first time.

Letisha Harris (26:50)
Yeah.

Brandi Lewis (26:54)
It explains people. explains sometimes even like being in the work world and you you working with somebody and they’re known as a difficult person to work with. And sometimes it could be because of something that’s happened in life that you have absolutely no clue has gone on or is going on. Very true.

Letisha Harris (26:57)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

drama.

Yeah, or is going on, or is. Yep, because there are

many people who go to work every day and they go home and they’re physically, sexually, mentally, emotionally, financially abused. And they go home and they experience that. And then they come to work and their boss is yelling at them. Or somebody sneaks up behind them and they go, my God, right? That is the body’s response. That’s the body’s natural response.

Brandi Lewis (27:24)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (27:41)
to whatever experiences you are having. And so I’m always cautious about what I’m saying to somebody, about what I’m doing, about the movement of my hands, about getting permission to touch somebody. All of those things are so important because I’ve watched people come up and just tap somebody on the shoulder or rub their shoulder. And I’m thinking to myself, you don’t know if that person wants you to touch them.

Brandi Lewis (27:47)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (28:04)
You don’t know if that person wants you to put your hands on them. You don’t know what they may be experiencing. You don’t know their stigma around somebody touching them, right? They may have been touched inappropriately and you touching them does it not create a safe environment for them. And so being aware of what my body is doing and how I would feel if my body had been treated a certain way, what I want.

Brandi Lewis (28:05)
true.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (28:30)
that treatment from somebody else. Would I want, even in an innocent situation, would I want that person to touch me? And if it’s no, then I’m not gonna touch somebody else.

Brandi Lewis (28:36)
Yeah.

and being in the South, like, you know, we’re huggers and we’re more touchy. Like, you know, when you see somebody, you want to hug them, but like you said, you don’t know. You have no clue if maybe that is a trigger for somebody of just being touched and the body’s reaction to that. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.

Letisha Harris (28:42)
Mm-hmm.

yeah.

Yeah.

Yep. Yep. Yeah, so I’m always like, can I give you a hug? How are you doing? know, do you mind if I

hug you or want to shake my hand? You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

Brandi Lewis (29:05)
It’s just being more aware. Yeah. Awareness of it.

you explain that where I feel like a light bulb went off for me. It’s, it explained so well of just as people in this world, we’ve all been through things in life, but ⁓ it’s just learning how to be aware of that other person ⁓ and what they’ve been going through.

Letisha Harris (29:20)
Yeah, absolutely.

Yep.

grace, know, lending grace, lending mercy to people, lending grace to them, being ⁓ able to put yourself in their shoes. You may not be experiencing the same thing that they’re experiencing, but if you can think about some traumas you’ve had or some difficult situations in life you’ve experienced and think maybe that person is having a really hard time right now, or maybe something has triggered them and they don’t know how to respond.

Brandi Lewis (29:29)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (29:53)
And that happens more often than we think. The person that blows up at the cashier at the grocery store and you’re thinking, why are you yelling at that person? But something may have triggered them and they may not even know or be aware. They may be having an out of body experience and not be aware that they’re even going off on that person because then they can walk away from that person and say something pleasant to you and you’re thinking.

Brandi Lewis (29:53)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (30:19)
Like what just happened here, right? Like you were just going off with that person, but it was a trigger. There’s something that triggered them. And a lot of people are walking around unhealed. And a lot of people are walking around with triggers and not even aware that they’re triggers. know, words that are said or, yep, words that they say or things that are done or a movement, even a hand gesture, you know, even a movement of your hand in some way can trigger somebody to respond.

Brandi Lewis (30:21)
Yeah.

That’s what I say. don’t think everybody’s aware. Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

And like you said, people ignore those traumas. You see that a lot or downplay them. And you spoke a little bit to this, but like, what are the consequences to that if you ignore that or downplay the trauma and the triggers and you don’t get the healing you need? Like kind of where do people go from there?

Letisha Harris (30:50)
Mm-hmm.

It definitely impacts all aspects of your life. You begin to bleed that, like I was saying earlier, you begin to bleed that into every aspect of your life. ⁓ The simplest, you know, I can’t keep a job. I can’t keep a relationship. ⁓ I have trouble with disciplining my children. My family, you know, is out of control. I don’t, you know, I don’t feel like doing anything or going anywhere. My self-care is not as important, you know.

Brandi Lewis (31:19)
Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (31:36)
Sometimes the first things to go are like teeth brushing, brushing your teeth, which is a very, a very, yes, it’s because it’s the last thing that you do before you ⁓ complete your morning routine, right? So if you’re doing your morning routine, most people don’t get up first and brush their teeth. They wash their face, they may take a shower, they may do all that, and before they leave out the door or before they get downstairs or whatever, you know.

Brandi Lewis (31:40)
Yeah, I’ve heard that.

Yep.

Letisha Harris (32:05)
they’ll brush their teeth, right? It’s always the first thing to go. After that comes like the maintenance of everything, right? So keeping your hair in line, keeping your nails in line, ⁓ keeping your face washed and cleaned, right? That becomes, and if you wear makeup, stop, you kind of limit the amount of makeup you’re wearing or you minimize the things that you put on your face, right? And then showering comes next, right?

And before you know it, you’re not wanting to go anywhere, do anything, get out of the bed. Those are the different steps and stages that happen as well as your family friendships or relationships start to suffer. You start to not wanting to hang out with them or you start to be short with your family members or your friends. Like they ask you something and you don’t really want to talk about it or you don’t really want to have any conversations with them about that.

Or you do talk to them about it, but you don’t really see any positive responses from it, right? So those are the kind of things, or that’s all you can talk about, right? Like that trauma is all you can talk about. ⁓ At work, you stop performing like you were performing before, and that happens slowly over time, right? Because a lot of people put a lot of focus on work because they need the funds to be able to manage their lifestyle. So they will put a lot of focus on work, right?

Brandi Lewis (33:00)
Okay.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (33:29)
work performance starts to be, starts to diminish. You also start to showing up a little later, right? You you may be on time, you may be 15 minutes early, right? Then it goes down to 10 minutes early. Next thing you know, you’re just there right at nine o’clock, right? Or eight o’clock or whatever time you start your day. And then next thing you know, you’re getting there at eight oh five, right? And you know, people are saying, why are you late and blah, blah, blah. And then you say, don’t worry about it, I’m here, right? You know, that kind of thing. And it slowly starts to.

Brandi Lewis (33:35)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (33:57)
integrate into all aspects of your life because that trauma is not healed, right? And it’s a simple trauma, right? Oftentimes, I mean, there are a lot of people that it’s huge traumas, but oftentimes the everyday person is dealing with a small trauma that builds over time. So it’s one small trauma that they put another trauma on top of and another trauma on top of to your mountain is so high that you can’t handle it. now everything is, yep, and now everything is affected.

Brandi Lewis (34:14)
Hmm.

Yeah, it’s too much to bear.

Letisha Harris (34:27)
that because that first trauma was not addressed. And that’s what therapy helps you do. Pull off the layers of those traumas that you experienced, right? That you may think as insignificant, but they impacted you. One or two or three or four of the same thing happening, one, two or three, four, five different things happening, all impact you mentally. And they change your perspective of things.

Brandi Lewis (34:28)
Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (34:56)
They change your emotional connection to things. They change your spiritual connection to things because our spirit, our body, our mind are all connected. And the minute one gets out of whack, your emotions start falling in line, right? So your emotions take over to warrant the physical, mental, or spiritual aspect of your life. So anytime you have an emotional experience, right, that’s out of the norm.

Brandi Lewis (35:26)
Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (35:26)
There are

people who are criers. There are people who are excited. There are people who get nervous. Some of those are natural human responses. But when you get overly nervous, or you’re crying about everything, or you’re angry about everything, or you’re anxious, anxiously excited about everything, then you have to really look at what in my life ⁓ is not aligned.

because my emotions are coming into that space and filling that space so that there’s an alignment.

Brandi Lewis (36:02)
Yeah, that was going to be my next question was what are the emotional triggers of trauma that’s unhealed? But like you said, anxiety is such a big thing right now. There’s that cartoon movie, I can’t even think of the name of it, that came out and one of the characters is anxiety. Inside Out, yes. And I remember people resonating with that character so much.

Letisha Harris (36:12)
It’s

inside out. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Brandi Lewis (36:29)
And I’ve heard, don’t know the statistics, but I’ve heard that a lot of people have anxiety. my question from there would be like, how do people first off know they have anxiety? Cause it’s such a huge emotion. And like you said, one that does come from trauma as well as mental health. how can people see the signs of having anxiety and what can they do to heal from that?

Letisha Harris (36:42)
Mm-hmm.

Oftentimes people are anxious because they’re, I was just telling somebody this the other day, they’re holding on to something from their past while they have an expectation for their future. And so when you are holding on to your past, right, and then you’re still trying to expect that you’re gonna get this thing in the future, you’re trying to pull your past with you, right? And then you’re also trying to pull your future with you. So then you’re doing a tug of war, right? Which is causing you,

Brandi Lewis (37:02)
Wow.

Wow.

Letisha Harris (37:20)
to be anxious in your body, because you don’t know what’s gonna happen. I know what did happen, right? And I know I don’t want that to happen, right? So I’m gonna keep remembering that that happened, right? That’s the holding on, right? But this is what I expect to happen. But I can’t have that if I keep on thinking about what was happening. So you have this anxiety, which is this hyperdensity in your body, right? And it shows up.

Brandi Lewis (37:32)
Yep.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (37:46)
in different aspects where you’re nervous about what’s gonna happen. I’m nervous about what they’re gonna say. I’m nervous about what they’re gonna do. I’m very aware of and very concerned with how they view me. I’m very concerned with what’s gonna happen if this happens next, right? That’s anxiety. And anxiety is actually a very normal thing, right? But the thing that happens is when you hyper-focus, right? You focus so deeply on that thing. So if you’re getting a new job.

and you’re nervous about the new job, right? Nervousness is normal, right? Being anxious about what’s to come for that new job. But when you get into the position and you start doing the job and you’re doing it well, then you’re nervous about whether or not they’re gonna keep you there. Then you’re nervous about whether or not you’re gonna get let go, right? Somewhere in your life you have experienced a level of rejection or a level of denial or a level of minimizing that has created now this anxiety about them.

minimizing you about them not seeing your true worth or value, right? And that comes from a trauma that you experienced that you may not even be aware of, or you may not even recognize that that was a trauma, right? You lost a job or you didn’t do perform well at your last job. So now you’re like, oh, I got to perform really well, right? So you hyper-focus on that. And then if they say something to you, you’re in the first week or first…

Brandi Lewis (38:55)
Yeah.

Letisha Harris (39:14)
first or second week of the job, right? You don’t know everything and you’re not doing everything right, right? Every job and every person is not gonna do it right the first couple of weeks, right? But people expect to and when they get a review,

Brandi Lewis (39:23)
Yeah.

Letisha Harris (39:29)
when the person tells them, makes correction, right? Like they give them a correction to do the job, right? To do the job better. All of a sudden they’re like, I can never do this job. Right? And now they’re nervous about whether they’re going to be able to do the job. And so then they go to the and they’re tensed, right? They’re tensed. They’re focused on doing their job, right? They’re not interacting with their coworkers, which is just as important.

Brandi Lewis (39:32)
Performance improvement. Yep. Yep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (39:56)
as doing your job successfully, right? They’re not, they’re, you know, listening to and hanging on to every word that the supervisor is saying. And if the supervisor immediately before the supervisor can finish their sentence, they’re at their computer trying to fix whatever that problem was, right? That’s anxiety. And that’s what it looks like. And that’s normal, right? It’s when it takes over that it becomes abnormal. And that’s when you need to seek help. But so many people

Brandi Lewis (40:15)
Mm-hmm. Mm.

Letisha Harris (40:23)
equate every experience that they have in their life to having anxiety. And there’s a huge difference. Anxiety, true anxiety, halts you from being able to live in your authentic self. Any mental ⁓ health diagnoses alters you. When you need mental health services is when it alters you from being able to live in your authentic and true self.

If it changes how you are operating in life, everyday life, then you need mental health services. If it’s something that is norm, right? Because we get down, right? But the minute somebody gets down, then they’re thinking, oh, I have depression, right? And now you’re putting that on you. And now you’re putting that on you. And now eventually you’re going to have that because you keep saying it. You keep putting it on you. You keep equating everything to that, right? It’s when your life alters.

Brandi Lewis (40:56)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

You will. Yeah.

Mm.

Letisha Harris (41:22)
because of whatever that is. It changes your chemical DNA or it changes your ability to function in everyday life. And that is when you need mental health services.

Brandi Lewis (41:33)
Wow. Wow. Yeah. And I think from everything we’ve talked about, we’ve talked about it from the perspective of that person dealing with that. So that person dealing with the mental health or the anxiety or the trauma re-trauma, but now I kind of want to change gears and talk about it from the person, like a loved one that maybe is in the household with somebody.

Letisha Harris (41:50)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Brandi Lewis (42:01)
What would you say to that person? Like, where do they start to recognize it or, I don’t know, I don’t know if they help. don’t, you know, you tell me like, where do they start? Because it’s got to be just as frustrating for your loved ones to see their person going through this and not knowing how to help. Yeah.

Letisha Harris (42:11)
Is it?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And one of the biggest things I tell people ⁓ when they’re a loved one of someone who’s dealing with mental health is that they normalize the mental health, right? Because when we make it something that’s abnormal, people reject it.

Right? People don’t want to be a part of that. People don’t want to experience that, don’t want to feel that, right? Which only makes the person who’s experiencing the mental health crises or needing the mental health support, it only makes them feel worse, right? Or, right, or when you minimize it, right? So when I say support, I mean, be present with that person. So if they’re having an anxiety attack, claim it, name it, and allow them to claim it, right?

Brandi Lewis (42:48)
Yeah.

Yeah, like feel like an outcast. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Letisha Harris (43:12)
You’re having a panic attack. You’re having an anxiety attack. You are in a depressive state, right? What would you need from me to help you and to support you as opposed to saying, you need to do this, you need to do that, you need to fix this, you need this, you need that, right? Right. And everybody, typically we do that, right? Because we want that person to be better. And it’s not, we’re not doing it from a place of judgment, but that person feels judged.

Brandi Lewis (43:13)
Yeah.

Yeah, we do come from that side. true.

Yeah, we do.

Exactly.

Yeah, they do.

Letisha Harris (43:39)
And so when

you are supporting them, instead of saying what they need to do or what they should be doing, ask them what they would like for you to do. What would you like me to do to help you? How would you like me to support you? Do you need a break from something? Do you need me to provide you with something? Is there someone I can call to support you in this? Am I the right support? If I’m not the right support, can I find someone who might be a better support? Right? Because I’m wanting your

Brandi Lewis (43:47)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (44:09)
safety, I’m wanting your healing, I’m wanting for you to be better. And what do I need to do to help you be better? Because I don’t want you to be in this position. So coming from a place of care, concern, and love allows for you to connect to that supportive part of them. And they will not always, but most of the time they will let that guard down a little bit to allow for you to help them see that there’s something that they need to change.

Brandi Lewis (44:12)
Mm-hmm.

you

Yeah, I mean, it’s so true. mean, I can, I’ve done it. I can count on my hands how many times I’ve been like, I care about you so much. This is what I see that you need to do. And you you started listing it off, but like you said, it really, makes it look like it’s a place of judgment for that person ⁓ instead of asking them, what do you need from me? How can I support you in this?

Letisha Harris (44:42)
Hmm?

Yeah.

Yeah.

being authentic about your own personal experience, right? So if you have experienced mental health or you have gone and seen a therapist or you have been in a depressive state or an anxious mode, you know, speaking about that helps that person feel like they’re not alone, right? Because when you want to, you’re wanting somebody to heal from something or you feel like they, you know, they want to heal, right? And you recognize that they want to heal.

Brandi Lewis (45:05)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Letisha Harris (45:26)
You being authentic about your own personal experiences or journey, right? ⁓ I’ve told clients before, like, I know it because I did it, right? I’m not telling you this because I’m coming from a book. I’m not telling you this because I’m coming from a place where I’ve never experienced or I don’t know what I’m talking about. I did it. I did that thing and this is what I did to help me.

Brandi Lewis (45:32)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Letisha Harris (45:52)
or this is how I worked through and processed through that. So you can too. It helps them feel like they’re not alone. It helps them feel like they can heal from whatever this is.

Brandi Lewis (46:00)
Yeah.

And speaking to like that person’s healing journey that’s going through that, where would you tell somebody to start? Like say there’s somebody that battling some mental health issue, depression, anxiety, something out there like that. Where do you tell them to start?

Letisha Harris (46:20)
First place is to recognize that you have it, right? Recognize that you are depressed. Recognize that you are anxious. Recognize that you do have, you may have a chemical imbalance or you may have an addiction or you may be struggling with this thing, right? Struggling with just life in general, right? Recognizing that is the first step because if you can’t recognize it, you can see as many therapists as you want to. If you don’t recognize it,

Brandi Lewis (46:25)
Yeah.

you

Letisha Harris (46:49)
you’re not going to be able to heal it. So recognizing that it’s there, it’s present, right? Beginning to then seek out what help you need, right? Because it may not be help in the line of a therapist. It might not be help in a line of medication. But if it is, right, seeking out all avenues and all aspects of what your mental health would look like, right? What do you want? What do you have now? And what do you want?

Brandi Lewis (46:51)
Yeah.

Letisha Harris (47:19)
And then you begin to work through how you can get what you want. So if you want healing from being anxious or having anxiety, or you want to be able to manage your anxiety, or you want to be able to be less depressed, because it’s not a cure, you don’t just come out of that, but you can be less depressed, or you can gain skills and tools.

that will help you when you do feel depressed, right? So that it’s not something that you are in for a long period of time. And so seeking out what things you want next, what things do you want and how can I get them? Do I need to see a therapist? Do I need to provide more self care for myself? Do I need to be exposing myself to more nature? What things do I need to exercise more? Do I need to change my eating habits?

Brandi Lewis (47:56)
Yeah.

Letisha Harris (48:16)
Is my eating connected to my emotional experiences? Is ⁓ my lack of sunlight or lack of experience outside hindering me from being able to connect to my emotional side or being able to feel joy and excitement? Like what things are happening for you? And when you do other things, do those things change, right?

⁓ Am I needing more time with my friends? Am I needing to be more dedicated to that? Do I need to forgive somebody? Do I need to apologize to somebody? What things do I need to do? And then if therapy is the next step, because you realize that it’s deeper than just those things, then you seek out what kind of therapist do you want to have? Do I want a therapist that focuses on cognitive and behavioral?

Do I want a therapist that focuses on doing things more ⁓ than talking about them? Do I want to focus on a therapist who is focused on addiction? Maybe I have an addiction to something. ⁓ Is there a therapist that’s available for that? Do I want a therapist that’s a man or a woman? You just go through the different steps and stages of each aspect of your life and be authentic and be real.

Brandi Lewis (49:15)
and

Letisha Harris (49:33)
and have somebody who is there either has experienced it or can support you in going through the steps and the stages because there may come a point where you like, this is crazy. I’m not, I’m done. I’m just, you know, like, I don’t want to deal with this healing stuff no more. I’m done. Right? Like I was okay. And I was fine being whoever, right? It’s like cleaning out your closet, right? You get to that middle step where you didn’t clean down all that stuff. You’re like, this is it.

Brandi Lewis (49:40)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. You’re like, I don’t want to do anymore.

Letisha Harris (50:01)
I’m not doing none of this. Shove all this stuff back in that closet because the clean space was clean. Right, exactly. The space was clean before I started digging all this stuff out, right? And so you just want

Brandi Lewis (50:01)
Exactly. We’ll try again later. Yep. Yep. Yep. It’s true.

Letisha Harris (50:10)
to shove it back in there, right? So you have to have somebody who can support you and say, no, keep moving, keep going. You’ll get there, right? It’ll all be cleared out, right? Like you’ll get rid of the stuff, the junk that’s not supposed to be there, or you’ll get rid of the old shoes that you haven’t worn in years that you don’t need, right? Throw them out.

Brandi Lewis (50:15)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yep.

Letisha Harris (50:29)
But you have to be able to have somebody who can support you in that. And that is the step that many people get to, and then they stop. And then they never get to the other side, because it’s too painful. It’s too painful. It’s very painful opening up wounds. It’s very painful opening up things and experiences that you’ve had in the past. It is very painful. I’m not going to tell anybody that it’s easy, but it is worth it.

Brandi Lewis (50:33)
Yeah.

It is. Yeah.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (50:56)
Because on the other side, you discover who you really are. Who you are past all those things that you experienced. Who you are that those things that you experienced created. Those things created and forged this person who’s strong, this person who’s resilient, this person who’s determined. And if you quit just before that happens, you don’t get to feel that.

And you don’t get to experience that. And it is beautiful to experience that, to be able to live in your authentic, true self and not be judged, not feel judgment from other people, even though other people may judge you. You don’t feel it. Or not feeling that you’re not adequate enough. Or not feeling that you’re not enough for someone, right? Or enough to be loved, right? When you get to that place, it is beautiful. And many people don’t get there. And many people don’t get there because they stop.

Brandi Lewis (51:30)
Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

You find you. Yeah, you get to find you in that.

What would you say? I mean, they even made me think of people that are older that may feel like it’s too late for them. What do you say to those people? Yeah. Yeah.

Letisha Harris (51:55)
Mmm. It’s never too late. It’s never too late. As long as you have

breath in your body, as long as you have limbs, and even if you don’t have all your limbs, as long as you have breath in your body and you understand that that is a process that you need to go through, it is never too late. You can always do it. I’ve worked with people who are in their 80s. I’ve worked with people who are from five to 88.

Brandi Lewis (52:06)
Yep. Yep.

Yeah.

Wow.

Letisha Harris (52:24)
I’ve worked with. just, believe that people can find and discover who they are at whatever stage and whatever age of their life. It never stops. Healing process never stops. You never get 100 % healed, right? But you can discover who you are and you can live in that authentic self at any age and at any stage of your life. doesn’t have to be.

Brandi Lewis (52:24)
Wow.

Thanks.

Letisha Harris (52:49)
in your 40s to 50s. It doesn’t have to be in your 20s to 60s. Whatever it is, it doesn’t have to be. It can be at any age in any stage of your life. Discovering who you are is a constant journey. And when you get to a place where you are confident in who you are, then all that other stuff doesn’t even matter. But any age, any stage.

Brandi Lewis (53:01)
It is.

that’s so beautiful.

That’s so beautiful. Cause it’s just so true. I feel like from what I’ve taken away from this is one thing, cause I’ve taken a lot away, but one thing is ⁓ having a therapist helps you get to that point where you are authentically you. And that’s really what a therapist is helping you do is find you peel back all the layers, heal all the trauma and get back to who you are. Wow.

Letisha Harris (53:23)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, yep, yep.

Yep. Yep.

Brandi Lewis (53:38)
I love that. And just to close it out, this has been such a great discussion. I want to end, and I always love to end with just like a hopeful message for somebody that may be listening to this episode that just needs a little boost of encouragement to maybe take that first step. And maybe they’ve been thinking about seeking out a therapist. What would you tell somebody that’s listened to this episode that may be in that position?

Letisha Harris (54:00)
Mm-hmm.

just do it, do it and be your true self. When you think about the first time you went to get your nails done, right? I mean, you might’ve been a little kid or you might’ve been whatever. You were nervous. This person is about to be touching my hands. I don’t know what they’re gonna do. I don’t know if it’s gonna turn out right. Just do it. And you went in there, you did it and you enjoyed it. You enjoyed it so much, maybe you went back again. You kept going, you kept doing it. And the same thing is with therapy.

Brandi Lewis (54:23)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Letisha Harris (54:36)
Do it, do it. If you need it, if you feel like you need it, if you’ve been wondering about it, if you’ve been thinking about it or consulting yourself about it, do it. Right? And if that first therapist doesn’t work, find another one. Don’t give up on the journey because that therapist wasn’t right. Keep doing it. Keep moving. Keep going forward. Because on the other side of that is your victory. Whatever your victory looks like, on the other side of that is your victory. And even

Brandi Lewis (54:49)
Yes.

Yeah.

Letisha Harris (55:06)
Just making the call on the other side of making that call is your victory. You might unlock something that you didn’t know was there just by doing that, right? And so I say, do it, do it. Whatever it is that you’re needing, whatever it is that you’re seeking out, do it.

Brandi Lewis (55:14)
Yeah, that’s beautiful.

Thank you so much. This is, I think, such a powerful episode and just one that it helps everybody. We’ve all been through something in our life and this really helps to kind of open our eyes up to maybe something we’ve been through or maybe something a loved one has been through. And we just kind of need to see that perspective a little bit clearer. So thank you so much. Yeah, I’ve enjoyed it. Absolutely.

Letisha Harris (55:24)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yes.

Yes, yes, thank you. Thank you for having me.